Hi there. Resident senior designer here.
I recently read in the Los Angeles Times that Hewlett-Packard is “developing technologies with DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc. to improve the color consistency between print and digital images.” Hewlett-Packard calls this new technology “DreamColor.”
Essentially, HP has created a closed loop system so that bits of data that represent color mean the same thing to cameras, monitors, and printers. Why? So that when light waves are captured by a camera they are perceived as the same waves that are seen reflected off of a print. Hello, does this sound familiar? Mac users are already familiar with Colorsync, Apple’s attempt to “synchronize” color across media. In fact, we’ve talked about BookSmart color management made easier in an earlier blog post.
Regardless of DreamColor’s future impact, Blurbarians can do three things RIGHT NOW to achieve more accurate colors in Blurb books.
- Calibrate your monitor. An accurate monitor is important because inaccuracies are passed to the printer and yield inconsistency.
- Leave your images as sRGB – convert images edited in another working space to the sRGB profile – since this is the color space that Blurb’s printers assume are embedded in images. Since BookSmart strips out image profiles, knowing that the printer “thinks” the image is sRGB allows you to view and tweak the image before it is imported into BookSmart.
- Soft proof your images. You might want to “soft proof” using sRGB as a proofing destination space (or in the future when we provide a printer profile, as the source and the HP printer profile as the destination) and then convert to sRGB after you edit.(Check out Color profile for Blurb books.)
DreamColor and Colorsync both attempt to make the perception of color consistent from the time an image is captured by a digital camera to the moment it is printed on paper. Any advance on either the PC or Mac platform is welcome. For these advances to really help Blurbarians, BookSmart and the publishing of Blurb books must be included in the closed loop or synchronized environment. Even given the current technology, there are steps Blurbarians can take to reduce inconsistencies. I know that Blurb makes every attempt to produce a quality product but if the quality of the images provided by users is not accurate to begin with, making the colors more synchronized is only a “dream.”
41 Comments
I think this post needs one small correction. Instead of saying “…or assign the sRGB profile in Photoshop to images edited in another working space…”, it should say “CONVERT to the sRGB profile”. Even if people don’t really understand Color Management, getting them to Convert instead of Assign is pretty important.
Hi Marshall - Great point. Sam chose “Assign” for one very important reason. If you assign rather than convert, you can still edit your shots in a better editing space and preview before you convert. And yes, you will convert to sRGB when finally saving the file.
Thanks!
Hey Kathy - Sorry to be the stick in the mud problem child (especially when I haven’t ordered a book (soon!)), but if you Assign the profile, you are then editing in the space you Assigned, not the original space. Also, you can’t then Convert to that target space - you’re already there, only you’ve changed the interpretation of the colors. Many folks routinely work in sRGB, but for the many others who work in wider spaces, Assigning first I still think would be an error.
Anyway, sorry to be that annoying guy…
I’ve just joined and will soon be ordering a book. I shoot with my SLR set to the Adobe RGB (1998) -wide gamut- color space. In Aperture or Photoshop I’ll make adjustments to the images, then CONVERT to sRGB before saving ready for BookSmart. So, Marshall is absolutely right. Sam is also correct, but only if you ASSIGN the ICC color profile your camera assumes. For most point-and-shoot cameras sRGB is a safe bet.
More annoying than the ‘annoying guys’ comments is for your book to be printed with inaccurate color.
Marshall - We stand corrected and have tweaked the post above accordingly. Love the feedback. Thanks.
Quick question, if I’ve got all my images in Booksmart already and then run a Photoshop batch conversion on the jpg’s, do I need to reimport them in, or does it upload the (now modified) originals?
Hi Phil,
Unfortunately, BookSmart does not recognize changes to original images that have already been imported. Changed images have to be reimported and dragged back into their respective image containers. This is a feature we would like to add later.
Hi Phil,
I want to make an a correction to my last response to you. If you are on a Mac, then images are linked if the images in BookSmart were dragged into containers from the iPhoto PCL window called “My iPhoto Photos” rather than the library called “My Imported Photos”. Because they are linked, edits to the original images that reside in your iPhoto folders will automatically be applied to those images in BookSmart.
I have been reading these posts with great interest as I am seriously considering putting together a book about my fine art practice. However this whole area where colour profiles is concerned has me worried in a way. I sall try to apply the suggestions offered by Bonsai photographer guy (Sam ?) and that womanpretty smart lady …Kathy.
Maybe if I get abit stuck and come up against the wall I can post on here. Initially I had read such good things about Blurb as in comparrison with eg Lulu but now it seems that the colour printing/quality could be a dissapointing (major flaw as far as I ‘m concerned - I’m a fine artist for Gds sake !!)
so maybe initially I will do a small book with blurb. Is this what people mean when they refer to a ’sample’ from Blurb?
Oh and what does pcl stand for ?? please ??
and that little “s ” in front of RGB,
as in “sRGB”?.
By the way I’m all the way over here in Edinburgh Scotland and we are still hoping that the summer will come along to us one of these fine days !!!!
Aine asked “and that little “s ” in front of RGB,
as in “sRGB”?.”
The little ’s’ stands for SOME RGB… :o) Seriously though, sRGB is a standardized colorspace developed by Microsoft and Hewlett Packard which is rather limited in ‘colors’, especially for fine artists! You should work in a larger colorspace such as ProPhoto RGB (Lightroom’s Default) and then convert to sRGB (and softproof!)in photoshop, when intending to print a Blurb book.
Ok, question here…what is the difference between CMYK and RGB? I save my pics to RGB but now I see there is the CMYK feature too. Can someone please explain. And…I do not have a sRGB feature, at least not in Corel which is what I use. Is sRGB and RGB the same? Thanks, Kim
RGB refers to red, green and blue…the colors used in the Web world. CYMK stands for cyan, yellow, megenta and black and are the color mixes used for all print work. CYMK is better in print works, but I suspect for the purposes of Blurb cannot be used because this is a web interface.
hi all, I really like the blurb books and am eager to get started. So far all my images are large Tiff’s and when I convert them to JPEG’s for blurb I’d like to get them in the right color profile. Have down loaded the “HP Indigo Press 5000 Semimatte” to my desk but the Bonsai Guy only gives instructions for PC and I’m on a Mac. Anyone know how to get the HP Indigo Press 5000 Semimatte” proflie into photoshop CS. Is it worth it or is the ADOBE 1998 RGB good enough
cheers
It is worth it once you convert your color space to sRGB (the color space that our printers assume your images are in).
The soft proof profile called HP Indigo Press 5000 Semimatte can be dropped into HD/Library/Colorsync/Profiles/Recommended. When you are in Photoshop select proof setup at the top and then click “custom”. This allows you to load the HP profile to be used as a proofing profile. Choose perceptual rendering intent and turn black point compensation on.
- Samuel
Wow Samuel I think it worked thanks a bunch!! now i can get started.
I just made a book and the printing came out dark and the blacks areas were just not detailed….it was like black blotches.
I exported my jpegs as 300ppi, 7mb, sRGB. My monitor was recently calibrated with ” PULSE COLOR ELITE”
can someone tell me step by step on how do get it right?
do I have to go on photoshop’s/window/arrange/ at all?
I see a bunch of profiles but I never touched that area before.
Hi,
First off, sorry that the shadow tones are too dark. I recommend reviewing comment 14 and downloading the HP soft-proof profile from the following url http://www.bonsai-photography.com/.
Your color space is correct and I applaud you for calibrating your monitor. Because printers cannot reproduce the range of values and colors that a monitor can, soft proofing in Photoshop using the profile mentioned above allows you to see and correct before hand what the image will look like printed. When soft proofing set the rendering intent to Perceptual.
Bye,
Samuel
I am planning to make a book soon. I have been reading all the comments and just wanted to get something clear. I use, for my pictures that I print, my own icc profiles which I create with eye one, greatagmacbeth. I also use this for my monitor to calibrate. When I am done with with the edit of my pictures and soft prof. Do I have to save it in sRGB? I want to be able to get my images printed from my computer to the book looking the best. let me know.
Thanks,
Miriam
Hi,
Glad you are taking the steps necessary to improve your image fidelity. Once your monitor is calibrated/profiled you should convert your images to sRGB. Once they are in that space you can softproof them.
The logic of this order of events is as follows: 1) profiling the monitor gives meaning to the numbers that represent color - this number means this color on this monitor. 2) Converting to sRGB brings the image into the color space that the printer assumes the images are in - these numbers are sRGB numbers rather than those from another color space. 3) Softproofing once the numbers are in sRGB allows you to see better (not exactly) what those numbers will look like when printed.
Many people will take the additional step of printing one book as a color proof just so they can see how their images look when printed and then adjusting the images accordingly.
Samuel
Hi all –
Thanks for your postings. Everyone is talking about coverting Adobe RGB images to sRGB. Can someone tell me how to do it in CS3?
Thank you!
Hi!
I just ordered a book from Blurb. I did not convert my images to sRGB. They are still in RGB. I did not realize until reading this blog the importance of sRGB.
Does anyone have any experience with printing a book from RGB files? Did they turn out ok, or should I expect to get mine back with really bad color?
Hi Rachael,
There is a really good chance that your images are automatically in sRGB already. Some digital cameras allow you to save the images in two other color spaces (Raw and Adobe RGB 1998) but the default is usually sRGB. If you are dropping images into Booksmart directly from your camera without bringing them into Photoshop (where many people convert their images for better retouching) then you are most likely fine. Regardless of the color space (what we refer to as sRGB or Adobe RGB etc.), the quality of your pictures is determined most by how well they are shot.
Samuel
Hi Deborah,
To convert images to sRGB in CS3 go to Edit/Convert and choose sRGB as your destination profile. If your image is already in sRGB, sRGB will be shown as the source profile in that same window.
Samuel
I recently printed a book in RGB and the images came out dull and muddy.
After reading your comments here and carefully studying Sam’s instructions on converting to sRGB I was beginning to see a ray of hope. I uploaded the ICC profile and found that everything looked like business as usual, until I pressed (What I call the Ugly button)…(Simulate Paper Color). Instantly my beautiful image was transformed to a dull muddy mess. I like working with Photoshop, but trying to clean that mess up for printing is going to be an absolute nightmare.
Can any of you help me get this right?
hi alexandra,
i have the same problem. when i softproof my images (sRGB) with the HP indigo press semimatte profile - they turn dull and muddy… to be honest I dont know how to fix them, if i boost up the contast i loose all the detail in the blacks and the highlight. but nobody really seems to know how to give advice to the customers - who are paying money to get their books printed - VERY STRANGE INDEED!!
To Lord Byron, comment 25:
You need to increase the contrast of the image. While on softproofing view, add Curves Layer with Blending mode set to either Normal (will increaqse color saturation) or set to Luminosity (will only increase contrast). Tweak the curve layer’s points to create more contrast, or in Adobe CS3, chose the Increase Contrast preset in the curve’s dialog. Hope this helps.
Brand new to Blurb and this blog. Trying to learn and understand color management. Understand most of the suggestions, but am baffled by “soft proof” and am not sure how I would do that in Aperture 2.1. I do understand how to drop the recommended profile into the Color Synch area, and how to “assign” the profile to the “project” in Aperture, but soft proof? Would that be “preview?”
Thanks in advance for advice and patience as I climb this hill.
Hello,
From what I understand Blurb uses a different printer for the interior pages than they do their covers. This is good information, as the interior pages don’t seem to be coming out bad.
The cover is the only real culprit here and I think we all agree on what the problem is.
I contacted Blurb and the only response they had for me was to send them my files in sRGB. This was there only answer and the same one they repeated to me again and again.
So I gave Adobe a call and ran it all by one of their techs. He was nice enough to go through Sam’s directions with me as well. The results on his end were exactly what I was getting on my end –Dull Muddy Images-. By the way if you don’t like the result from checking your Gamma you may want to change the Mode to match. This will make your image look normal again.
We finally came to the conclusion that all of this nonsense was really only a big waste of time. What we are really dealing with here is a printer issue. This secondary printer, what ever it may be, that they are using to print the covers with, seems to be a tad bit picky. I have had one successful story out of four book covers and it was after I boosted up the exposure and added saturation. I am actually very pleased with that version.
Will I continue to use Blurb? Yes, of course I will. I love working with Booksmart as I find it to be quite user friendly. The price of Blurbs’ books is very reasonable compared to other –One off book publishers-. I’m not sure if I would re-sale one of their books simply because the price would be too high for the consumer. That is why I am seeking a real publisher for my project. In the event that my book never gets published I can always by books from Blurb for family and friends at a price that wont hurt my pocket book.
I have heard other people use blurb books for school assignments and print competitions.
This is a really bad idea and one I would very much want you to reconsider. There are many printers that deal with specialized printing for professional photographers. If you are looking for top quality printing I would suggest, PRO.WHCC.COM or one like them.
You will immediately notice that their prices are much higher, the quality greater and customer service much better than Blurbs .
Welcome to reality. If you are a professional or working toward being a professional your going to have to do what all the other pros are doing –Pay for a Quality Printer-.
One of the perks is you get to actually talk to someone if you have a problem with your order.
Happy Snapping,
Alexandria
I shoot like a pro, but use amateur software! :-) Do I need to convert to CS3, or can I utilize my Elements 6?
Elements 6.0 will be fine. Edit your ikmages in Abobe rgb and then convert to sRGB just prior to saving.
Bit confused! I did one book, and set it all up correctly, but now on my second, I have some doubts. Had a hard drive failure in between, so all settings weree lost. Using Photoshop, I have working space, color settings, set to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 and saving at ICC Profile Adobe RGB(1998) Do I need to alter Assign profile?
I have also downloaded the HP profile for soft proofing.
Thanks
Why is it so difficult for blurb to simply list the papers and printers and proper ICC profiles for each, and the correct way, with screen shots, to implement these settings?? What is all this second party, Sam Edge and the whole “we dont technically honor ICC profiles” business all about?? What is going on with this company?? I have never had such a difficult time with such a thing. When I use a local printer for a job, I simple call them and ask what brand of printer they use and the proper ICC profiles for whatever paper I want the image printed on. They either email the profile and tell me the settings, or they list on their website. This is a common practice that Blurb has seemed to completely ignore for some reason!
When I emailed blurb for support, I got some canned answer that has almost nothing to do with my question. When I asked about this in my email to them, they answered by telling me “they dont help you color calibrate your system as this is something that requires specific hardware to do so”. Well thank you, I know how to calibrate my monitor and I have that specific equipment. Furthermore, I never asked you how to do this.
This is maddening!!
Anyone have this problem?
Hi Aaron,
We don’t publish standard ICC profiles, just like we don’t publish information around Photoshop or any third-party vendor. Blurb is responsible for our products and can only support our products. And if something changes with a third-party vendor that we have no control over, it would be even harder for us to support.
You’ll be glad to know that Sam Edge’s profile suggestion works for both our standard and premium paper options. No need to change a thing.
Also, since you work with calibrated monitors and have dealt with color profiles in the past, you might consider looking into our B3 program. With this program you can order Custom Workflow books that have been specifically calibrated to work with the specific Blurb B3 profile.
Hope that helps.
– Kathy
I am having the same problem as Alexandria and Lord Byron. When I soft proof using either the generic US web-coated or the specific HP profile, my photos turn into a muddy mess, as if a translucent layer was placed over them making the blacks lighter and the whites grey. This seems like far too much of a difference. It is far beyond a little contrast correction. I know that many vacation travelers making a book are not even aware of Adobe vs sRGB and soft-proofing. I’m sure they just drop in their .jpgs and I’m sure they are not getting back muddy dull books. So what is going on? Also, is there a profile yet for the 7×7 books?
RGB - Blurb book interior pages and CMYK - Blurb book hard cover ink
This is a potentially a major problem for some of us. I am having a professional photography show soon and I would like to make a quick but good book of all the photos in the exhibit to have on site for purchase.
The entire show is active lava taken day and night. The night lava has a strong yellow-orange-red range. These images print wonderfully using RGB color mode. BUT- and here is the problem - those same strong night lava colors turn to mush when shifted from RGB to CMYK and are very difficult to repair by any means I have tried.
This would not be a problem if the entire Blurb produced book was entirely printed in RGB, but their FAQ page under ‘four-color printing’ states, “Our covers and photo books print using CMYK ink”…. And of course the cover is the most important image and I would want a night lava shot cover-to-cover.
So my questions to anyone here, especially someone from Blurb Books who understands this well is:
How can I proof a Blurb book cover without ordering my entire book?
Has anyone had Blurb book cover problems with color like Alexandria mentions above?
Does anyone know of a surefire correction method for converting RGB to CMYK besides hitting the mode change in Photoshop; a conversion that retains the RGB integrity of yellow-orange-red?
(With the CMYK image I have already tried adjusting ‘selective color’, ‘hue & saturation’, and any other Photoshop color adjustments available but none of them return the color range to something good)
You can view a sample of this problem on my website page here: http://leighs-gallery.smugmug.com/gallery/6344339_hh3sY#404389003_qcsiC and make comments there too.
Any and all suggestions welcome!
Thanks,
Leigh
Hi Leigh -
I checked out your site. Sadly I can’t offer any help for the Blurb-specific questions, but this might help with the color spacing issue:
Are you working with layered PSD’s when you’re converting from RGB to CMYK? If so, I’d recommend flattening the image (Document > Flatten Image), your base image and all adjustment layers & such into a single layer and converting to CMYK then. There is somewhat of a color shift, but if the document is flattened its usually not too bad. You can also try
Also, making sure all color viewing/calibration issues that you have control over are taken care of, like the following:
1. Color calibrated monitor - There are quite a few options for color calibrating your monitor to correctly simulate print colors, such as the Pantone Huey system. Also, a coated/uncoated monitor (such as on some of the newer Macbook Pros) also have an effect on lighting conditions.
2. Viewing conditions of proofs - surrounding lighting can have a large effect on colors that are viewed on both screen and printed materials. Making sure you have good, daytime lighting for work on-screen and when you’re checking out proofs can help ensure color consistency.
Also, the stock of paper you view images on can affect color intensity. Coated/uncoated, different paper’s specified whiteness/brightness/opacity come into play there.I don’t have any direct links, I’m sure a good Google search might get you what you need on these.
I hope this helps - the battle between RGB/CMYK color spaces is an on-going one. Fortunately, there are many options available to photographers/designers alike to ensure closeness between the two. Please feel free to contact me at jaysu@live.com - while I’m not super fluent in all the printing/color space issues, I may be able to offer more help in direction to good resources.
Good luck! :)
Andy
Thanks a lot for all your good suggestions Andy! That was real nice of you. I will re-look at these photos and keep in mind your ideas.
I am pretty careful with most of the process and computer lighting, but this one lava-color issue has become a stickler for me… I think I might be mixing my working and proof modes or something– maybe saving in Adobe98 but working space may have been different… Yet I look at all of that and still have pretty much the same situation…. Anyway, I am just thinking out load now :) … I will make sure I fattened those images too…
Thanks Andy— and I will write you when I solve this or if I think you might have another idea as I stumble along.
~~ Leigh
I am using Aperture 1.5.6 on my MacBook Pro. I have calibrated my monitor and have it set to sRGB {calibrated}. I downloaded the HP profile and it’s location path is /Library/ColorSync/Profiles/Displays/HP5000SemimatteExp05.icc .
I can not find a way to have Aperture apply that profile to my pictures when I export them.
#1. Am I understanding right that the HP profile gets applied to the photos upon exporting and not before, i.e., when I’m making adjustments in Aperture, and the profile is embedded in the picture just so Blurb’s printers can recognize it and print my pictures so they come out looking like they do on my monitor?
#2. How do I put that profile “in Aperture” so I can utilize it? It doesn’t show up as an option under the drop down “ColorSync Profile” menu found in the export preset dialog box. I notice that in ColorSync Utility the HP profile is labeled: “Class: Output” where the other ones {Color LCD and sRGB, which I CAN select in said drop down dialog box} are labeled: “Class: Display”. Is that my problem, and can somebody explain the difference between Output and Display profiles, i.e., what they do etc??
#2b. What does it mean, under said Aperture drop down export dialog box, “Use Source Profile”?
#2c. In the end, should I select sRGB, or my calibrated sRGB profile to export pictures from Aperture with and should I use that same setting for my Mac’s display? Or do I use calibrated for my monitor and standard for the export preset? I am so confused!!
#3. Do black and white pictures come out looking good compared to color pictures in Blurb books, particularly on cover pictures where I have read so much about the colors being muddy?
Thanks!
Sorry, I must be a dingbat, but I am using Photoshop CS2 and I can’t find out where to drop this HP preset in…none of the folders that make sense have files with ICC endings… and I can’t find anything remotely similar to:
HD/Library/Colorsync/Profiles/Recommended
help?
Hey Kristina,
I think the directory is C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Color\Profiles\Recommended on Windows. Not sure what operating system you are on.
Thank you Myles. I never ever would have even stumbled upon that!!
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